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gvillenative

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59 minutes ago, gvillenative said:

The first United flights to and from Denver started. I’m interested to see the load is. If it is an indication of whether we can support more west coast destinations.

That and Frontier seeing how they already fly to Denver along with Las Vegas.

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On 6/2/2019 at 6:24 PM, btoy said:

I flew direct back from Vegas to Greenville two Fridays ago and it was a much better experience that I was lead to believe I would have.

I have heard that Frontier has the lowest customer satisfaction ratings but I honestly am not sure why, and I haven't looked into it. My guess is, perhaps they have a higher rate of delays, or simply beacuse of the business model, maybe fewer flight days and times frustrates people. Or, perhaps people feel there is a "bait and switch" with their low fares and resent having to "pay extra" for seats, snacks, bags, etc. The way I look at is that with "legacy airlines" you're paying a whole lot more even with those extras (except baggage fees which you have to pay for anyway) and people seem to be okay paying hundreds more to not have to "add on"  snack, seat preference, or carry on fees. 

I don't know, I'm a budget conscious guy so I'm willing to "add" a couple things and still pay hundreds less . The biggest drawback for Frontier to me is the reduced flight options.  But now that they are here I will definitely take advantage of the options they do offer and hope they'll add some more.  Newer planes, relatively good leg room, great prices, options to add what you want and leave off what you don't; sounds good to me.  

 

 

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On 6/1/2019 at 1:54 AM, apaladin said:

Flew Frontier for the first time Friday evening non-stop to Denver. They also had a non-stop flight to Las Vegas Friday night. Didn't realize Frontier was flying larger planes out of Greenville. We were on an A320 Airbus. What was really surprising is the plane was completely full. If this is any indication Frontier is here to stay. 

The return flight Wednesday afternoon was full also. :tw_grin:

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While we're waiting for April's numbers to come out (still), here's a recent article on the upcoming Moxy airline. Will be a point to point model instead of a hub and spoke model, with strong focus on exclusive routes to underserved cities. Hello GSP  and CAE!?

https://simpleflying.com/moxy-airline-long-haul-flights/

Also saw a post on another board they are looking to finalize a name this summer and hired a former Allegiant route planner to design a schedule of point to point flights for secondary and tertiary markets. Still working on financing. 

Edited by distortedlogic
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I always enjoy keeping up with Boeing and Airbus, and whats developing in the aerospace world.   A couple days ago at the Paris airshow Airbus officially launched the "A321XLR" airplane.  The A320/321 is the single isle workhorse airplane that is a competitor to Boeing's 737.   With a listed range of 4700 nautical miles, the XLR is an airplane that I think the industry has been waiting for for a long time.   4700nm is a "still air" range, so don't expect a 4700nm route to show up, however 4000nm is probably entirely reasonable.  See below for picture of 4000nm range from GSP from gcmap.com.    Western Europe is there, and Munich just squeaks in at 4036nm.  Anyway, to me it's exciting.  If a carrier wants to roll the dice on a Western Europe, South Ameria, (Hawaii even?), there's an aircraft available that can do these flights.  

image.png.4cc09360961ab34dedf770eb8e7aa628.png

     

Edited by chuckyvt
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My flight home a few days ago from Chicago to Greenville was delayed for a few hours.  I overheard some other passengers saying they would miss their connecting flight.  Shocking I know.  I think their final destination was Charlotte.  I have never heard of anyone transferring flights at GSP. Is this new or has this been happening for a while?

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1 hour ago, green3 said:

My flight home a few days ago from Chicago to Greenville was delayed for a few hours.  I overheard some other passengers saying they would miss their connecting flight.  Shocking I know.  I think their final destination was Charlotte.  I have never heard of anyone transferring flights at GSP. Is this new or has this been happening for a while?

It's been happening. 

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April numbers released: A 13.4 % increase over last April; from 183,012 to 207,539. 

So far this year traffic is up 15.38% or + 100k. If the increase were to remain constant, we'd see between 2.6 and 2.7 MM this year. 19 consecutive months of increase at GSP with the past 6 months (and 8 out of the past 9) seeing double digit percent increases. 

Several new and added routes started up for May so expect another big growth month when those numbers come out.

 

BTW, here's an excerpt from May's Commission meetings about future Terminal capacity and possible upcoming addititons: 

 

C. Terminal Capacity – Current Challenges and Planning for the Future Mr. Kevin Howell, Senior Vice President/COO, presented to the Commission current growth challenges inside the terminal resulting from enplanements outpacing forecasts, airlines up gauging equipment, additional frequencies, and new service announcements. Mr. Howell reviewed the Master Plan enplanement forecast. While the FAA is conservative on growth projections at approximately 1.5%, the current annual growth rate (CAGR) for air service is projected at 3.15%. The blended average (Terminal Area Forecast (TAF), Max TAF, and Air Service) is 2.46%. GSP is currently tracking three years ahead of forecast. While the RS&H study in 2010 indicated that the Terminal Improvement Program (TIP) renovations (2012-2017) would satisfy this airport to about 1.5M enplanements, based on GSP’s historical average of 4.5% growth, GSP is likely to reach +1.5M enplanement in the mid 2020’s, not 2030 as forecasted; therefore, planning needs to begin in FY20. Mr. Howell also discussed the existing challenges with gate utilization and the peak hour morning push. He mentioned that the TIP addressed several functional areas, but that no new gates were added during the project. In the 2010 TAP study, the recommended Phase 2 terminal elements for 1.5M - 2M enplanements include additional gates and hold rooms, passenger security checkpoint and baggage security, international facilities, additional concessions, curb length, and additional public areas. Mr. Howell showed a rendition of the preferred terminal concept. Mr. Howell proposed the following terminal planning project timeline: FY20 - Planning and Programming, FY21-22 - Potential Design Phase, and FY23 – Potential Construction Start. The Commission asked about the impact of the I-85 construction on GSP passenger growth to which Mr. Edwards responded. The Commission then asked when the last leakage study was conducted to which Mr. Edwards responded that while a standalone leakage update was conducted in 2012, the numbers from that study are updated twice a year. The Commission indicated an interest in seeing those leakage numbers at a future Commission meeting. The Commission further inquired about a customer service questionnaire. Lastly, the Commission asked for clarification on the timeline of the planning project to which Mr. Edwards responded. 

 

Actually, if any additional service is announced in the second half of this year, 1.5 MM enplanements could be reached as soon as next year or, if not, probably the year after,  meaning the projection of "mid 2020s would be off as well.

Edited by distortedlogic
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2 hours ago, gman430 said:

Yawn. Wake me up when we get like Charleston. If they can get that many airlines, destinations, and passengers there is no reason GSP can’t. 

Anyways, wonder how many new gates would be added? 

Few reasons they'll probably always have more passengers. It's a big tourist city, pretty much only airport in the immediate region; and no competition from Hartsfield and Douglas. Greenville sits between the 2. GSP is doing very well considering that and will only add more.

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4 hours ago, gman430 said:

Yawn. Wake me up when we get like Charleston. If they can get that many airlines, destinations, and passengers there is no reason GSP can’t. 

Anyways, wonder how many new gates would be added? 

Actually GSP is like CHS was just a few years ago. As moten stated there are several reasons why CHS is doing so well, plus a lot of their destinations are seasonal like MYB.  For us not to be a tourist destination and with the competition nearby were doing fairly well, with several more possibilities in the near future.

Dont know about gates but a number of our destinations are either just daily or several times a week, so we still dont have a lot of takeoffs and landings each day. 

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Re: gate additions, it seems to me that it would be desirable  to asap relocate the tower. There's a lot to be said for balance, and B concourse will likely remain a stub with the tower situated where it is. I haven't heard any reference to tower relocation, and I don't have the patience to look through master plan documents, which are probably outdated anyway. Any talk of that on the horizon, or will A-concourse just keep getting longer and longer?

Interestingly, in the Fred Flintstone days of the airport, it was B (then A) that was "long" and A (then B) was just a tiny little stub that served Southern Airways. Eastern was dominant, Delta didn't serve GSP at all, much less AA or UA.

Edited by Exile
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On 6/22/2019 at 2:31 PM, motonenterprises said:

Few reasons they'll probably always have more passengers. It's a big tourist city, pretty much only airport in the immediate region; and no competition from Hartsfield and Douglas. Greenville sits between the 2. GSP is doing very well considering that and will only add more.

Cola and GSP do suffer from proximity to ATL and CLT.  It is a good news/bad news scenario....it’s great to be so close to two of the nation’s largest airports, but it also makes it too easy to make a short drive and avoid changing planes and layovers.  Not sure about ATL, but CLT is on a forever project which will add a lot of capacity 50+ gates, an expanded central terminal area,  a 4th parallel runway etc..... So, the pressures won’t go away.

However, newer aircraft do make it more efficient to  fly smaller crowds on longer distances.  That helps small airports make connections to places like Denver.   

 

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20 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

Not sure about ATL, but CLT is on a forever project which will add a lot of capacity 50+ gates, an expanded central terminal area,  a 4th parallel runway etc..... So, the pressures won’t go away.

ATL is also in the middle of a $6 billion "forever" project - http://next.atl.com/

6th runway, more gates, modernized terminals, new/expanded parking lots and plane train expansion.

These massive airports are just in perpetual expansion due to insane growth.

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23 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

ATL is also in the middle of a $6 billion "forever" project - http://next.atl.com/

6th runway, more gates, modernized terminals, new/expanded parking lots and plane train expansion.

These massive airports are just in perpetual expansion due to insane growth.

Wow. I know ATL enjoys the title of "World's Busiest " and all but maybe they should really look at a second airport. At what point do these airports get too big to be convenient?

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44 minutes ago, NewlyUpstate said:

ATL is also in the middle of a $6 billion "forever" project - http://next.atl.com/

6th runway, more gates, modernized terminals, new/expanded parking lots and plane train expansion.

These massive airports are just in perpetual expansion due to insane growth.

$6b is a lot of cash, CLT will come in around $3b.  The bottom of this link has a list of the projects and description.

The $9b in total between ATL and CLT certainly puts pressure on Cola and GSP.  But, the wildcard is newer aircraft that are more efficient and can fly further with a smaller number of passengers. 

https://www.cltairport.com/newsroom/destination-clt/

 

 

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44 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

Wow. I know ATL enjoys the title of "World's Busiest " and all but maybe they should really look at a second airport. At what point do these airports get too big to be convenient?

Their master plan has them filling up the mid-field terminal area by something like 2030  with three more half-concourses (half in comparison to the original 6 long ATL concourses). The runway would be paired with the most recently constructed one (that crosses the freeway). After that, seems to me like there'd be no room to increase their capacity appreciably without some serious $$$$$ devoted to eminent domain.

Gainesville or Rome or somewhere else north of the city should upgrade an existing airport  with a view toward snatching away O&D traffic. That is, if the state's not artificially protecting ATL's current monopoly. Scratch Gainesville--that could affect GSP.

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New Air Traffic Control Tower Update:
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Howell, and Mr. Kossover were in New Jersey last week attending a three-day session with the FAA regarding site locations for a new air traffic control tower. Three preferred sites were determined. GSP Air Traffic Control Tower Staff were also at the meeting. A cost-benefit analysis on those three sites will be conducted. The FAA has scheduled AFTIL 2 for the first week in November.

 

Providing a look forward into the service levels for July 2019 is a schedule comparison for the month vs the same month last year, including flights and seats by airline and non-stop markets served. GSP flights are up at 15.5%, and seats are up at 19.7%.


Parking Garage C & CONRAC Facility:
Status – Design Phase
Project Budget – $40,000,000 Estimated Completion Date – 2022
This project includes the design and construction of a new combined public parking and rental car ready/return garage. The design team is led by LS3P. The design team is currently working on site design including roadway modifications and underground utilities. Staff is finalizing the agreement with Metromont Corporation for precast design/build services as approved at the March Commission meeting. Construction of the parking garage is expected to start late summer 2020. As previously discussed, the overall parking garage design schedule and construction timeline will be determined by the Public Surface and Employee Parking Lots Program.

 

Surface Parking Lot Expansion Program: Status – Design Phase
Project Budget – $16,700,000
Estimated Completion Date – Summer 2020
The Parking Garage C and CONRAC Facility Project will impact the existing Daily Surface Parking Lot and the Employee Parking Lot. Due to continued passenger growth, public parking capacity is already strained on a near daily basis. Based upon the planning and programming presented in January 2019, the Surface Parking Expansion Program was approved with a budget of $16,700,000.
This program includes a new 1,500 stall parking lot for public economy parking with associated access road and a roundabout on Aviation Parkway. The program also includes a new approximately 600 stall Employee Parking Lot and TNC Staging Area on GSP Drive.
Project planning was completed by McFarland Johnson. Kimley-Horn is leading the design and engineering work. Rodgers Builders, Inc. is under contract as the Design- Assist contractor for the project. Civil design is underway, and the team is working towards submitting the project for permitting in June.


Aircraft Rescue and Firefighting (ARFF) Station:
Status – Bidding Phase
Project Budget – $11,750,000 Estimated Completion Date – TBD
This project includes construction of a new ARFF station to be located adjacent to the PSA Hangar at 2100 GSP Drive. Design and engineering were delivered under the WK Dickson on-call contract. Architectural design was led by Leo-Daly supported by DP3 and other sub consultants. Four contractors were pre-qualified for bidding. Proposals are to be received on June 14. Award will be pending a final AIP grant offer from the

Edited by gman430
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43 minutes ago, Exile said:

 

Gainesville or Rome or somewhere else north of the city should upgrade an existing airport  with a view toward snatching away O&D traffic. That is, if the state's not artificially protecting ATL's current monopoly. Scratch Gainesville--that could affect GSP.

Agreed, hopefully any new airport would be farther west , GSP  doesn't need any more close airports for competition. 

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34 minutes ago, gman430 said:

 

 

Providing a look forward into the service levels for July 2019 is a schedule comparison for the month vs the same month last year, including flights and seats by airline and non-stop markets served. GSP flights are up at 15.5%, and seats are up at 19.7%.

Yep, nearly 20 percent increase is seats over last year is a pretty big jump for GSP. Through April, enplanements up about 15 percent, so load factors down about 3.5 percent.  I know, the numbers don't add up exactly but we're roughing it here. Still, looks like we've absorbed most of those extra seats which is a good sign. 

As of April, Frontier load factors running at 76%, which isn't bad, but we'll have to see what happens as it adds two more Denver flights while United add its Denver route. 

A very strong year for growth for GSP,  let's hope we can keep it up. Remember,  Greenville County is now well over 500k and the Anderson/Greenville/Spartanburg tri- county track is over 1 million. Population continues to grow, with quite a bit of influx from other areas, of people who will need to travel. That growth, combined with trying to reduce a long history of leakage, should help keep the opportunities for continued air service demand. Maybe not at the same rate we've seen over the past 18 months , but still.

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18 minutes ago, distortedlogic said:

Yep, nearly 20 percent increase is seats over last year is a pretty big jump for GSP. Through April, enplanements up about 15 percent, so load factors down about 3.5 percent.  I know, the numbers don't add up exactly but we're roughing it here. Still, looks like we've absorbed most of those extra seats which is a good sign. 

As of April, Frontier load factors running at 76%, which isn't bad, but we'll have to see what happens as it adds two more Denver flights while United add its Denver route. 

A very strong year for growth for GSP,  let's hope we can keep it up. Remember,  Greenville County is now well over 500k and the Anderson/Greenville/Spartanburg tri- county track is over 1 million. Population continues to grow, with quite a bit of influx from other areas, of people who will need to travel. That growth, combined with trying to reduce a long history of leakage, should help keep the opportunities for continued air service demand. Maybe not at the same rate we've seen over the past 18 months , but still.

Leakage will always be an issue, especially if you live in Spartanburg.  CLT is not more than an hour for most of Spartanburg and gives direct access to 170 markets. And, the flights are typically on larger jets.

Helping GSP is the ability to fly a large regional plane from GSP to Denver.  United is using a large regional while Frontier uses a small mainline....but it still the terrible airline known as Frontier.  Other planes will make flying from GSP out west easier, but they will most likely not be on a 321 or larger.  And, hopefully not on a 737 max.

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40 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

Leakage will always be an issue, especially if you live in Spartanburg.  CLT is not more than an hour for most of Spartanburg and gives direct access to 170 markets. And, the flights are typically on larger jets.

Helping GSP is the ability to fly a large regional plane from GSP to Denver.  United is using a large regional while Frontier uses a small mainline....but it still the terrible airline known as Frontier.  Other planes will make flying from GSP out west easier, but they will most likely not be on a 321 or larger.  And, hopefully not on a 737 max.

Frontier is not using small planes at GSP as far as I know. I flew on a new A320 airbus coming and going to Denver. Both flights were full. I did not have a problem with Frontier and will use them again. From my experience they are not a terrible airline.

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21 minutes ago, apaladin said:

Frontier is not using small planes at GSP as far as I know. I flew on a new A320 airbus coming and going to Denver. Both flights were full. I did not have a problem with Frontier and will use them again. From my experience they are not a terrible airline.

An a320 is not a regional or a large jet.  I actually like the plane and was just one in Europe. United flys a regional which is interesting.

But, I would prefer not to fly on the Frontier seats, they are way too cramped.  

Edited by CLT_sc
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4 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

Leakage will always be an issue, especially if you live in Spartanburg.  CLT is not more than an hour for most of Spartanburg and gives direct access to 170 markets. And, the flights are typically on larger jets.

Helping GSP is the ability to fly a large regional plane from GSP to Denver.  United is using a large regional while Frontier uses a small mainline....but it still the terrible airline known as Frontier.  Other planes will make flying from GSP out west easier, but they will most likely not be on a 321 or larger.  And, hopefully not on a 737 max.

We're all well aware of how far Spartanburg is from CLT, as well as the fact that leakage will always be an issue. Minimizing the leakage is what we're looking at here. No matter how close Spartanburg is to CLT,  GSP  is much closer. So if it gets a comparable flight people will use GSP  instead, that's the whole point.

As for Frontier,  they work for me, glad to have them. Hopefully they'll add some more options!:good:

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