In my Utopian World...

[GRCentro]

This is being patterned after Pike Street Market in Seattle (the place with the zealous fish-throwers 

So, we're gonna get us a crew of fish-throwers from the Grand River too?!

[snoogit]

So, we're gonna get us a crew of fish-throwers from the Grand River too?! 

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heh of all the things people say about the grand river, I dont know if fish from the river would sell all that well

all of it might be untrue, but the grand river doesnt have the most pristine reputation.

[GRDadof3]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought it was appropriate. I saw in the travel section of the GR Press today a man-made kayaking course in Denver (Confluence Park). They also have one like that in South Bend. That would be cool if they took about 1/3 of the Grand River just about at the 6th Street Bridge where the new park is, and built a man-made kayaking chute with an island out in the middle with a pedestrian bridge out to it. They could use the fall of the dam and break it up into about 8 - 10 drops, all the way down to the I-196 bridge and the boat ramp there.

Here is a picture of the South Bend kayaking park, where they have had US Olympic trials:

[snoogit]

In my utopian world...

There would be less people clamoring for more parking, and more clamoring for a light rail system.

In my utopian world...

I could go downtown, and find myself a theatre that serves beer.

In my utopian world...

I could fart and get people to hold up signs with numbers on them to tell me how good it was.

In my utopian world...

Broadband would be more widely available.

In my utopian world...

Google would move to Grand Rapids, and I would be working there.

And Finally In my utopian world...

The planning commission would just dissappear

[eagle]

In my utopian world...

The Grand River, through downtown, would somehow become navigable to large boats. Imagine how cool it would be to have marinas, bars, and restaurants along the river downtown. Boaters would head up from Grand Haven and get a slip for the evening for Dinner at Chariles Crab or Benthems. We'd have ferry boats leaving the Public Museum Docks for sunset cruises to Grand Haven. How about jet skiing from Riverside Park to Grand Haven and Back.

How about Monroe Terrace Condo Owners having a slip out front for their boats?

How about a Waterfront Stadium, like in Grand Haven, (maybe like at the Ford Museum) with boats going by in the background.

Families walking along the boardwalk downtown eating ice cream and enjoying the beautiful city views at night.

Picture the Flats in Cleveland or the Waterfront in Chicago...

[joeDowntown]

Indeed, this would be cool. I can only imagine the environmental impact (let alone the cost) would make it nearly impossible in this day and age.

One thing I have often thought about is I think it would be cool if they brought the rapids back to Grand Rapids. They could keep the sixth street dam to ensure the river flows regularly (I read that the Grand used to get really tiny through downtown in the summer before they dammed it) and put boulders in to recreate the level and swiftness of the original rapids.

With GRDad's idea in mind (which was also in my head), they could make it an attraction by laying the boulders in such a way that they could have multiple kayak runs for outdoor adventurists. It would be quite a tourist attraction and would be cool to sit and watch the rapids...

Joe

In my utopian world...

The Grand River, through downtown, would somehow become navigable to large boats.  Imagine how cool it would be to have marinas, bars, and restaurants along the river downtown.  Boaters would head up from Grand Haven and get a slip for the evening for Dinner at Chariles Crab or Benthems. We'd have ferry boats leaving the Public Museum Docks for sunset cruises to Grand Haven.  How about jet skiing from Riverside Park to Grand Haven and Back. 

How about Monroe Terrace Condo Owners having a slip out front for their boats? 

How about a Waterfront Stadium, like in Grand Haven, (maybe like at the Ford Museum) with boats going by in the background. 

Families walking along the boardwalk downtown eating ice cream and enjoying the beautiful city views at night.

Picture the Flats in Cleveland or the Waterfront in Chicago...

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[Josh]

Putting rapids back in the Grand River is a fantastic idea! I have also thought of this possibility before; imagine seeing great boulders protruding out of the river with water rushing by. This would also be a lot easier when trying to explain to out-of-towners why we are called Grand Rapids.

[GRDadof3]

Adding rapids back to rivers is happening all over the country, apparently:

In the last few years, about 25 communities including Wausau, Wis.; Pittsford, N.Y.; and the Colorado cities of Boulder, Denver, Vail and Steamboat Springs have re-engineered the waterways coursing through their midst to create the rapids, riffles and "play holes" that white- water kayakers appreciate. Missoula, Mont.; Boise, Idaho; and Willimantic, Conn., are among a growing number of cities pushing to liven up their waterways

[joeDowntown]

That is interesting indeed. I would love to see something like this between the sixth street bridge and the Fulton Street Bridge. Right in the thick of the hotel/convention district. Does anyone have any historic pictures of what the rapids looked like in GR before they dammed everything up?

Joe

[Nitro]

Adding rapids back to rivers is happening all over the country, apparently:

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We inquired about this to some DEQ folk a couple of years back. We asked what the impact would be for doing this on the Grand.

Their response was, it would kill everything down river of the dam all the way to Grand Haven.

Our Industrial forefathers here in Grand Rapids polluted the river heavily by dumping their wastes before regulations were put into place. The toxic sludges and nasty crap has settled and stratified in the bed of the river through the years. It is "safe" as is, unless disturbed. By bringing back the rapids we would increse the velocity of the water and redisturb all of the polluted crap that lives at the bottom of the river. By doing this we would essentailly wipe out every living thing down river of us.

Not a pretty thought.

Nitro

[snoogit]

That is interesting indeed. I would love to see something like this between the sixth street bridge and the Fulton Street Bridge. Right in the thick of the hotel/convention district. Does anyone have any historic pictures of what the rapids looked like in GR before they dammed everything up?

Joe

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I don't think they had cameras back then

I wish I wasn't serious.

[joeDowntown]

No doubt. Maybe they got rid of them before photography was widely available.

I don't think they had cameras back then

I wish I wasn't serious.

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[joeDowntown]

That is pretty creepy to think that the sediment of the Grand is that polluted. Did the DEQ say how long it would take for the river to purge itself, or is it always going to be there?

I want Rapids to go with the Grand...

We inquired about this to some DEQ folk a couple of years back.  We asked what the impact would be for doing this on the Grand.

Their response was, it would kill everything down river of the dam all the way to Grand Haven. 

Our Industrial forefathers here in Grand Rapids polluted the river heavily by dumping their wastes before regulations were put into place.  The toxic sludges and nasty crap has settled and stratified in the bed of the river through the years.  It is "safe" as is, unless disturbed.  By bringing back the rapids we would increse the velocity of the water and redisturb all of the polluted crap that lives at the bottom of the river.  By doing this we would essentailly wipe out every living thing down river of us. 

Not a pretty thought.

Nitro

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[snoogit]

No doubt. Maybe they got rid of them before photography was widely available.

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I remember one of my science teachers in highschool say to me while we were on a field trip that the river hasnt had rapids since the mid - late 1800s

[GRDadof3]

What is that old saying "Sometimes you have to take one step back to take two steps forward". Even though disturbing the site might be harmful, what does having that polluted sediment do to the future of the river. Plus, doesn't the millions of gallons of sewage that is discharged every time we get a downpour basically do the same thing.

Look at all the cleanup they had to do along Lake Michigan to create Bay Harbor in Petoskey. It was a five mile expanse of lakefront property scarred by years of mining and a cement operation. Now it is one of the most gorgeous pieces of Lake Michigan property, with multi-million dollar homes, marinas, golf courses, and landed in the Wall Street Journal a few years back as one of the best retirement/resort communities in the country.

http://www.bayharbor.com/about/index.asp?s...1A8E42309B1381E

Of course, we don't need our own version of the "Big Dig", but....

[GRDadof3]

The Platte River in Denver was the same way:

http://www.waterconserve.info/articles/rea...sp?linkid=33719

It sounds like it may have been worse

[Nitro]

That is pretty creepy to think that the sediment of the Grand is that polluted. Did the DEQ say how long it would take for the river to purge itself, or is it always going to be there?

I want Rapids to go with the Grand...

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Not sure how long it would take to purge itself. I'm no biologist but I would think that the environmental impacts of doing such a thing would haunt us for a very long time.

Nitro

[GRDadof3]

I saw an article in the paper today where Lansing is talking about taking out their dam downtown and the Brenke Fish Ladder, to return the river to its more natural state. I can't find a link anywhere, but they are talking about making it more accessible by boat and kayakers. Hmmm. I wonder what would happen, instead of dredging the river like we were talking about, if they removed the dam and ADDED fill, boulders, and a clay cap on the bottom of the river to preserve the bottom. That might make it more navigable by boat and open it up for river enthusiasts...

[GRDadof3]

Another thought I had today Why doesn't someone coax Autodie out of their spot on Ottawa, and get them to move into the closed Steelcase facility on Eastern near 44th? The city would keep its tax revenues (maybe offset some for the move), and that would open up that huge area (at least a 250,000 sq ft lot) in Monroe North for a whole slew of possibilities. I don't even have to list them because I'm sure everyone's brains are spinning. Monroe North would become THE premiere neighborhood downtown (if not already). Plus, Division is already four lanes in that area and could handle the traffic for retail/mixed use, and you could build a pedestrian bridge over Division to have access to Belknap park. I can just see developers tripping over that property now

[snoogit]

Another thought I had today   Why doesn't someone coax Autodie out of their spot on Ottawa, and get them to move into the closed Steelcase facility on Eastern near 44th?  The city would keep its tax revenues (maybe offset some for the move), and that would open up that huge area (at least a 250,000 sq ft lot) in Monroe North for a whole slew of possibilities.  I don't even have to list them because I'm sure everyone's brains are spinning.  Monroe North would become THE premiere neighborhood downtown (if not already).  Plus, Division is already four lanes in that area and could handle the traffic for retail/mixed use, and you could build a pedestrian bridge over Division to have access to Belknap park.  I can just see developers tripping over that property now

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SIEZE IT! theres no need to coasx anymore.

All kidding aside, that does sound like a good idea

[Rizzo]

-Bring the bigs to GR...

-annex wyoming and kentwood

-light rail

ill think of more in the near future...