UNC Charlotte uptown campus

[dubone]

The picture i'm starting to get is actually starting to sound very good.

It would be the best of all worlds from my own perspective if we get the park going between 7 and 9, 8 remaining open (it is already practically a country road... very few people use it, and it is as small as downtown street gets), with public/arts buildings interspersed throughout the park itself, giving it a critical mass of people. It probably means a smaller park than originally proposed, but that's okay to me if it means that more cool and unique projects go there.

we'll see, and i reallize all this is speculation from a SPECK of info... but i'm liking the image i'm getting.

[Miesian Corners]

Whew! What a relief! Just got off the phone with the folks in the development office at UNCC. The rendering was simply a visual aid to give people an idea of what it could look like. No architect has been chosen and, according to a vice chancellor I spoke with, concerns have already been voiced that the rendering was probably not a good idea. They are aware that the building needs to make a bold statement and that its context needs to be addressed. The rendering did neither. More than likely a design competition will be held due to the building's importance.

I can sleep tonight.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

that is great news, its good they understand that the rendering was not too great.

[dubone]

this story gets better by the minute!

[peaceloveunderstanding]

it would be even better if the announced another tower to put on the plan.

[dubone]

They did, somewhat. Levine is saying a tower will go nearby on his land, right?

Of course, you can read the 2099 timeline between the lines, as always, when it comes to Levine. Too bad his family bought all that land with beads, or he'd be in more of a hurry.

[carolina_fan]

I've put in calls this morning to people that should know, so I'll post it when someone calls me back.......the floor plates on this should only be about 20,000 sq. ft. which is 1/2 acre.......a full city block is nearly 4 acres, so I doubt they would take a whole block.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone find out how much land UNCC is purchasing and whether the building will face Brevard or 9th?

[Miesian Corners]

(of course, you can read the 2099 timeline between the lines as always when it comes to levine.... to bad his family bought all that land with beads, or he'd be in more of a hurry)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At least the Jetsons will be able to enjoy Levine Village. Who knows, maybe the tower on the latest plan will be the new headquarters of Family Dollar when it moves uptown in June 2107.

[ElricSeven]

At least the Jetsons will be able to enjoy Levine Village.  Who knows, maybe the tower on the latest plan will be the new headquarters of Family Dollar when it moves uptown in June 2107.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still think we have to give him credit for the deal with UNCC. Long term, nonfinanced ownership allowed him to be generous and knock $500,000 off the price so that he could get the kind of building there that was appropriate. If he puts long-term advantages over short term gain like that, it will be a big boon. That being said, he doesn't appear to be in any sort of a hurry. We'll at least see how long it takes to see the next building proposed...

[Miesian Corners]

Elric, very good point. I give Daniel credit for doing a good thing. Now if he'll just stop covering the mortgage payments for land planning consultants, maybe we can get somewhere. This piece of land has been studied to death.

[dubone]

James Woodard had an op-ed piece in the Business Journal:

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...editorial3.html

There isn't much news in the piece, but it does say that "within 5 years, uncc will ... serve as many as 7500 students in the center city..."

Although a major difference from J&W will be that there isn't a residential component, but 7500 students could be a major boost to Levine's plans that hadn't hit me when this was announced.

Many or most of these students would be uptown workers, just as now, but by having them stay uptown for night classes and walk from tryon to brevard could improve night life, restaurant life, and general pedestrian activity in First Ward. Who knows, if those workers will be uptown for their night classes anyway, it may contribute to them catching an arena event after some of their classes.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/liv...on/13057610.htm

Renderings and curriculum plans will be complete in roughly 6 months.

With Bowles being from Charlotte, it could help the cause of this building and overall UNCC funding. Hopefully, it will also help spur private donations for their endowment and other needs.

In general, I think UNCC needs a billion dollar endowment, more competitive/consistent academic standards, and better connections to the city in order to grow into a powerhouse institution. (I originally included a football as an element to improve UNCC as an institution, but editted this to downplay the importance of a sports team).

The uptown project will help that cause considerably.

[cinco]

UNCC needs a football program, a billion dollar endowment, more competitive/consistent academic standards, and better connections to the city in order to grow into a powerhouse institution.

it's sad that a football program even plays into the equation of a sucessful educational institution. sad but true. still, it would be the absolute last piece to the puzzle if i were putting it together. JMHO.

[dubone]

Community pride in an institution often comes through sports, but you are right, the academic and financial aspects are far more important at making a university great. I have editted that out of my list above.

Campus design and neighborhood location go a long way in hurting UNCC's image, especially with newcomers to the area. UNCC is nestled into one of the ugliest, sprawly and uninspired areas in the state. That area also has the most uninspired location name on the planet ("University City").

When the buzz about one's university is "awesome campus" or "pretty campus" or "fun neighborhood", etc., then it reflects positively on the university as a whole. Instead, University City reflects negatively on UNCC.

The downtown building, although it is superficial, will help considerably in building connections to the rest of the city.

Frankly, I think Dubois should burn down the existing campus and its neighborhood, collect the insurance money and relocate somewhere near town. And for the sake of everything holy, don't call the new neighborhood "University Neighborhood".

[monsoon]

Frankly, I think Dubois should burn down the existing campus, and its neighborhood, collect the insurance money and relocate somewhere near town. And for the sake of everything holy, don't call the new neighborhood "University Neighborhood".

Well actually UNCC and University City have nothing to do with each other.

UNCC was formed by moving Charlotte College out of Charlotte to its present location and making it a member of the UNC system. Without this vision, the University would have never grown to its present 20K size and is moving towards being the largest university in the UNC system. While the University is building a downtown building, it continues to add many times that building on its main campus. It would not be able to do this with a location in the city.

University City is the area of town that grew up around UNCC and is ugly due to very poor Charlotte planning and neglect by city leaders. The failures of the city to properly develop this part of the city should not reflect negatively on UNCC since it had little say in what happened there.

[dubone]

In a similar manner, UNC-CH and Chapel Hill also have nothing to do with eachother. The town grew up around the University, even though zoning and development decisions were performed by the town and not the university. The town of Chapel Hill, and its image and design, reflect in every way on the University. It is a factor in students attending that school. It certainly was one of mine.

UNCC could have played a better role in influencing the standards in the area around its campus. I'm sure that if the university leaders had pushed hard for it, the city council would have gone with their recommendations.

No matter how it evolved, the reputation of the university will be forever linked to the appearance and vibe of the surrounding neighborhood. That is the case with every university. On a national level, when you think of NYU, Harvard, Northwestern, Washington University, etc. you think of both their campuses and their surrounding neighborhoods. Locally, when you think of JCSmith, Queen's, UNCC, and Davidson, you do the same.

In some cases, a university's campus is the polar opposite of their surrounding neighborhood, like Duke. That allows the university to escape the reputation of its surroudings. UNCC, however, evolved as a commuter campus and does not have much of a different feeling than the commuter suburbs that surround it.

The new uptown building will go a long way to improving the image of the university. Its surrounding there will be a successful neighborhood, a booming skyline, and eventually an urban village with a large park.

[monsoon]

well, UNC-CH and Chapel Hill also have nothing to do with eachother... except that the town grew up around the university.

the university could have played a better role in influencing the standards in the area around its campus. i'm sure that if the university leaders had pushed it, the city council would have gone with their recommendations.

Chapel Hill was created by the State when it created UNC-CH to serve the University in the 1790s. No comparison at all to the situation at UNCC which was created in the early 1960s. Charlotte was already here.

I can tell you the University had absolutely no influence on this area during the 80s & 90s. Mecklenburg county and later the Charlotte city council would not take any input from UNCC on local zoning issues. The County and City would not even listen to the now defunct University City Homeowners Association which was opposed to much of the development that got approved there. Even some of the large employeers in the area at that time expressed alarm of the gutting of the plans for the area.

What you see at University City is the result of the City, County and State bowing down to pressure from the Charlotte Medical Center, Bank of America, First Union who other land owners in the area that made hundreds of millions from cheap development.

The charge that UNCC is somehow responsible for the horrible conditions at University city is unfair.

[DigitalSky]

but the town of chapel hill and its image and design reflect in every way on the university, and is a factor in students attending that school, even though zoning decisions were performed by the town and not the university.

A bit off topic but I've got friends at UNC Chapel Hill who say they hate driving 10 miles just to go to Taco Bell or Target.

[dubone]

I can tell you the University had absolutely no influence on this area during the 80s & 90s. Mecklenburg county and later the Charlotte city council would not take any input from UNCC on local zoning issues. The County and City would not even listen to the now defunct University City Homeowners Association which was opposed to much of the development that got approved there. Even some of the large employeers in the area at that time expressed alarm of the gutting of the plans for the area.

What you see at University City is the result of the City, County and State bowing down to pressure from the Charlotte Medical Center, Bank of America, First Union who other land owners in the area that made hundreds of millions from cheap development.

The charge that UNCC is somehow responsible for the horrible conditions at University city is unfair.

I see your point about influence. I did not realize the town-gown relationship was so hostile in those years.

To be clear, I do not blame the university for University City's problems. But whatever causation, I think that some aspects of the University's reputation will always be unfortunately linked to the reputation of the surrounding neighborhoods.

I know they are working hard to improve the appearance of their campus and neighborhood in conjunction with light rail plans. Those plans are very positive and could potentially pull the area out of the gutter.

As far as your earlier point, I know it must have taken a lot to create a University out of a small Institute, especially in only 40 years. They have come a long long way.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but I just wish they could have opted to build a more urban university within the fabric of the city itself. Frankly, it could have been the University, not Mr. Levine, to purchase parcels in First Ward as they came available over the last 25 years. They could have grown organically as they needed facilities, and put them all right next to eachother with an urban design.

That said, I fully understand the pattern of obtaining a huge swath of farmland and growing as they ended up doing. They just had the misfortune of growing during a worst period in the history of architecture and city planning.

[monsoon]

UNCC was indeed the product of a lot of hard work from a number of tireless Charlotte volunteers to bring a major University to the city. It was a gift to the city from the State and without it, multiple tens of thousands would have been forced to seek an education elsewhere over the the last 4 decades.

The decision to locate it where it is today was made by the State of NC and really isn't any different from locating Chapel Hill (which was also remote farmland) where it is located instead of near New Bern or Raleigh which were the urban areas of the time.

[csedwards72]

This uptown building is great news. UNCC and University City's office space should never have been put outside the central city. If uptown's 57,000 office workers were supplanted with 20,000 students and maybe 40,000 office workers from University City, Charlotte's core would be much, much more vibrant than it currently is.

UNCC could certainly have been built uptown or closer in, although it would have maybe been a lot more expensive to do it that way. Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Fordham, etc. (and even USC) are all in urban areas.

[dubone]

It would have been more expensive, but it would have been a rallying point for pro-urban forces like McColl others at BofA. Contributions to the University might have been dramatically larger, had they taken the risk.

At this point, whatever mistakes and decisions in the past, the University is doing a very good job now in boosting its academics, finances, campus, surrounding neighborhood, and its urban presense. That is to be commended.

[monsoon]

Another point to consider. When the decision was made to put UNCC at its present location. Downtown Charlotte was far more vibrant, and had more people living there than see even today. The city was completely developed in those days and there was no where where you could strip 1000 acres or so and put down a major state supported University. The rot and decay that surrounds the CBD today did not exist at that time. That came in the later 60's 70's and early 80's.

[dubone]

The rot and decay occurred during those decades because of a lack of investment by major institutions, including the University of North Carolina.

Auto-oriented suburban planning was all the rage. That meant rapid growth of suburbs like University City (:cringe:). As pedestrian-oriented businesses downtown went under, they were razed and replaced with parking lots for those suburban commuters.

Your point is very well taken, though. I know there were a host of reasons during those decades that caused many businesses, institutions, and residents to opt out of central city investments.

[monsoon]

Keep in mind what Charlotte of the early 60's was like. There was no I-77, or I-277 and the downtown was a continuously built up area that extended for miles from Trade and Tryon. People came downtown to shop at the department stores and Sears, went to first run moves at the Carolina theatre, attended school at Charlotte High School, and many other activities that don't happen there now. There was still national rail service in the center city. The city bus service went everywhere and was used by everyone.

All of the land was already developed and if UNCC were to have been located in downtown, they would have had to buy large amount of land that was already being put to productive use. Do you tear down a block of offices or homes to build a school building? Of course the answer to that is no.

When the State decided to create a new University, they had to build a number of significantly sized buildings in a very short amount of time. There was no where they could have done this in downtown as it would have forced people out of their homes and closed down businesses. This is something that you don't want to do in a thriving city which is what Charlotte was at the time. Hence the decision to move to 1800 acres (might be 1200) at the edge of the county where the State decided to build its new University that led to the UNCC you see today.

Nobody knew that 15 years later, downtown was to have been vacated by really bad urban renewal plans and most of the land stripped into parking lots. It was an amazing transformation in a very short amount of time. First Ward for example was filled with wonderful victorian homes. My parents lived in the area in 1965 and I have seen photos of an area that most of you would not recognize now. Many of these disappeared with the building of the Brookshire freeway, and I remember going thru there in 1975 where it had become an urban war zone. By 1985, all of these homes were gone.

The fall of downtown Charlotte did not occur because UNCC did not choose to locate there. Case in point is CPCC. Before they built the John Belk Freeway, it could have been considered to have been in downtown Charlotte as it was just city streets going there. But the building of the school could do nothing to stop the really bad choices the city made in development leading to what we have today.